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September 27, 2004
Red States Feed at Federal Trough, Blue States Supply the Feed
Monday, September 27, 2004
The Tax Foundation has released a fascinating report showing which states benefit from federal tax and spending policies, and which states foot the bill.
The report shows that of the 32 states (and the District of Columbia) that are "winners" -- receiving more in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 76% are Red States that voted for George Bush in 2000. Indeed, 17 of the 20 (85%) states receiving the most federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Red States. Here are the Top 10 states that feed at the federal trough (with Red States highlighted in bold):
States Receiving Most in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
1. D.C. ($6.17)
2. North Dakota ($2.03)
3. New Mexico ($1.89)
4. Mississippi ($1.84)
5. Alaska ($1.82)
6. West Virginia ($1.74)
7. Montana ($1.64)
8. Alabama ($1.61)
9. South Dakota ($1.59)
10. Arkansas ($1.53)
In contrast, of the 16 states that are "losers" -- receiving less in federal spending than they pay in federal taxes -- 69% are Blue States that voted for Al Gore in 2000. Indeed, 11 of the 14 (79%) of the states receiving the least federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid are Blue States. Here are the Top 10 states that supply feed for the federal trough (with Blue States highlighted in bold):
States Receiving Least in Federal Spending Per Dollar of Federal Taxes Paid:
1. New Jersey ($0.62)Two states -- Florida and Oregon (coincidentally, the two closest states in the 2000 Presidential election) -- received $1.00 in federal spending for each $1.00 in federal taxes paid.
2. Connecticut ($0.64)
3. New Hampshire ($0.68)
4. Nevada ($0.73)
5. Illinois ($0.77)
6. Minnesota ($0.77)
7. Colorado ($0.79)
8. Massachusetts ($0.79)
9. California ($0.81)
10. New York ($0.81)
September 27, 2004 in Think Tank Reports | Permalink
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Comments
And the bottom line is...So?
Being from a blue state (NY) we've been whining about this for over 20 YEARS! This is suddenly news? If we didn't have two useless senators elected by the clowns in NYC (What have Schumer and Clinton done for New York again? Be specific) maybe it wouldn't be such a problem.
Then again, absolute numbers are left out of your posting. It would be interesting to see in absoulte dollars the discrepency. For example, if Mississippi puts in 100M and gets back 184M, that's a bit different than putting in 1B and getting 1.84B back.
Posted by: Tristan Phillips | Sep 27, 2004 12:48:41 PM
In addition to the absolute numbers of dollars, what is missing is the population of the states
compared to their ranking.North Dakota, South Dakota, and Montana made the top ten, but they have small populations.
New York and California, the two largest states, made the bottom ten.Maybe the states with fewer citizens simply need more federal funding because of a smaller tax base?
Posted by: David Tribble | Sep 27, 2004 1:04:09 PM
Let's also remember that the divide between "red and blue" is basically meaningless to an informed and educated citizen. I make no claims as to how many can be counted in that category. This link, http://www.crummy.com/articles/purple/ shows the real story (courtesy of Leonard Richardson).
Posted by: benbakelaar | Sep 27, 2004 1:15:38 PM
It's also interesting to note that often the most "fascinating" facts come from the most generalized/simplified data. Reality is much more complex and analysis-averse.
Posted by: benbakelaar | Sep 27, 2004 1:18:14 PM
What this suggests to me is that the Blue states have been victimized into supplying more than their fair share of federal tax dollars, while the Red states have been successful at limiting monies sent to the federal trough. And considering that Blue states have been the receipients of Democrat control and thus Democrat-sponsored taxation, this makes total sense. Stop high taxation and the Blue states will see this negative revenue stream stop. Of course, there will be a call for action the other way - don't stop taxing the Blue states, but start taxing the Red states at higher rates. Hardly the way to correct things, but someone will probably suggest it.
Just my $.02
Posted by: Rick Lacy | Sep 27, 2004 1:21:29 PM
Federalism (er, feudalism?) comes with the expectation that the system sucks money from all and redistributes it according to need (er, cronyist pork?)
I for one am warmed by the thought (er, trickle-on economics?) that the Republicans are the ones commonly thought to be fiscal conservatives yet the pounding drums of truth never seem to get through the skulls of their constituents.
What the above really describes is the relative strength of each state's (DC exluded) congressional power (er, crony connections). A good follow-up would be where this pork goes to and how was it maneuvered through our (s)hallowed halls.
Posted by: Keith T. Syverson | Sep 27, 2004 1:22:40 PM
I'd like to see a county by county breakdown. I bet there would be an even stronger correlation. I have read that there is a high correlation between blue counties and government welfare benefits.
Tribble: "Maybe the states with fewer citizens simply need more federal funding because of a smaller tax base?" Why is the solution always more federal funding? We're deficit spending with how many Trillions in debt...why not work on LESS federal funding?
Posted by: Don | Sep 27, 2004 1:23:59 PM
I wonder what would happen if you look a Federal spending per-capita along with population per Electoral College vote. Most of the states that get the most Federal money have relatively smaller populations and the Electoral College protects these smaller states from the obloquy of the majority. If Federal spending is really about buying votes, you would want to buy voters whose vote is disproportionaly inflated.
Posted by: Eric Budd | Sep 27, 2004 1:26:33 PM
What would this look like if military spending were taken out of it? Some of the "winning" states have a military presence well out of proportion to their population, precisely because they have a lot of land and few people.
Posted by: Matt Kayhoe | Sep 27, 2004 1:32:34 PM
Just by looking at the map we can see that most of the blue states have huge populations and are very big city oriented in comparison to the red states. This just means that these states put in more because they have more people. The federal government then divides this money accordingly based on infrastructural/agricultural/whatever need, which generally occurs in the states with less population, a la red.
Posted by: Robert Mayer | Sep 27, 2004 1:36:28 PM
I'm curious, what are the totals? Is there an average for all the Red and Blue?
Posted by: Dee | Sep 27, 2004 1:56:26 PM
Citizens Against Government Waste ( http://www.cagw.org/site/PageServer ) has a Pork Report to show where the dollars are flowing for silly/wasteful projects... That might help the analysis some. Btw - http://www.crummy.com/articles/purple/ is a FANTASTIC link! Thank you for posting that, David/Leonard.
Posted by: Dee | Sep 27, 2004 2:05:48 PM
A point worth considering is that urban areas typically act as marketplaces for the efforts and products of the entire country, including rural areas. How much of the stuff for sale in New York is actually made in New York? How much food production goes on in New York. Is it a self-sufficent state? I don't think so. Another example. Hollywood may pay a lot of taxes, but where are the consumers of it's craft? All over the place.
Seriously, if this analysis was actualy signifigant, wouldn't the blue states be inclined to vote red? At the very least, you'd think there would be a little less blue outrage every time a tax cut goes through. I suppose it fits well with the classic sterotypes though Republicans are stupid and evil; Democrats are sophisticated, yet gullible.
Posted by: Pinbot | Sep 27, 2004 2:07:06 PM
Full reports:
http://webpages.charter.net/kovaciny/f/tt1.gif
http://webpages.charter.net/kovaciny/f/tt2.gif
Posted by: Webgrunt | Sep 27, 2004 2:15:51 PM
This is actually a natural result of the manner in which electoral college and senate votes are apportioned. Because people in red states are over-represented because of their senators, apportioned arbitrarily based on geographic borders, and because of their consequent bonus votes in the electoral college, people in red states exert a disproportionate amount of influence over the federal government compared to their population. It's natural, then, that this privileged citizen class in the red states would be able to leech money out of the underrepresented people in the blue states.
The solution? Abolish the senate, and remove the votes based on senators from the electoral college. The result would be representation apportioned according to population, which would in turn result in a fairer distribution of tax benefits compared to tax burdens.
Posted by: TruthSpeaker | Sep 27, 2004 2:33:26 PM
There is an old saying in statistics, GI, GO. Garbage In, Garbage Out. This analysis
ignores so many factors it is worthless.Take a state like Alabama with a population of just over 4 million. It has a couple of big ticket items such as the Marshall Space Flight Center (NASA) and the US Army Aviation and Missile Command, that is part of Redstone Arsenal, in Huntsville. Fort Rucker is the primary flight training base for the Army. Fort McClellan is being shut down and untold millions are being spent on the disposal of chemical weapons and other ordnance. The Air Force has Maxwell-Gunter AFB.
A small population with a lot of Federal spending (8 on the list) but much of it tied to the military and space.
Posted by: Rick | Sep 27, 2004 2:35:38 PM
When you look at "Change in Spending per Dollar of Tax", instead of FY2002 Expenditures per Dollar of Taxes, you get a somewhat different picture:
Top 10 (increases of $0.56 down to $0.18): Alaska, North Dakota, Hawaii, D.C., West Virginia, South Dakota, Kentucky, Arkansas, Alabama, Vermont (highest to lowest)
Bottom 10 (decreases of -$0.05 to -$0.27): Colorado, Massachusettes, New Mexico, Maine, California, Florida, New Hampshire, Maryland, New York, Rhode Island (biggest decrease to least decrease)
Posted by: benbakelaar | Sep 27, 2004 2:41:42 PM
What's the problem? The blue-state liberals who want high marginal income tax rates and bigger government are getting exactly what they asked for.Posted by: fabrizio del dongo | Sep 27, 2004 2:42:02 PM
NM has a small population and large federal government programs mostly related to defense, energy, and the environment plus a large percentage of NM is federally-owned land. So the fact the federal government spends money in NM isn't surprising. How much of that money actually makes its way into NM citizens' pockets is another story.
ND used to house thousands of missle silos and probably still has a defense establishment and is a lot smaller than NM in terms of population. But it's probably those unbelievable farm subsidies that give ND citizens such a nice return on their federal tax investment - cash returned directly to the farmers for growing uneeded grain and/or not growing grain at all. What a swell deal! I bet the other Grain Belt states would have had similar numbers if you excluded their largest city. A map showing ROI by county would be instructive.
The downside of a bigger ratio is that the government is in your face more - Nevada's numbers would go up quite a bit if they fully embraced Yucca Mountain and actively promoted using their wastelands for waste-disposal and other unpopular purposes. For some reason, they don't seem to want that.
Posted by: Bryan Bingham | Sep 27, 2004 2:42:52 PM
First, one should probably look at the voter totals in New Mexico before saying Florida and Oregon were the closest states in the election.
Second, it seems a bit silly to include DC in this list, as its budget is controlled almost completely by the Federal Government. It is obviously more dependent on the Federal Government than a State Government for funding because...well...it is NOT a state.
Posted by: Jacob | Sep 27, 2004 2:42:57 PM
On the Florida, Oregon idea. Oregon being having more room per capita than Florida would theoretically have to work harder, per person, to meet the same demand of dollar for dollar.
While Florida and it's denizens are divided into a few subclasses with large blocks of voting Republicans. But the infrastructure, the workers of Florida vote predominately Democrat. Seniors often vote Republican. They get the best televised PR. They no longer work, and most are feeding from the trough. The filthy rich that have moved here or lived here and buys up all the beachfront property stood the best chance of a benefit from Bush's tax cuts. Count on Florida to go red even if all the infrastructure voted Democrat.
Oregon being made up of less Seniors, and totally rich per capita has to work harder to make that dollar for dollar. I would suggest you could expect to see a blue victory there. With less citizens and the returns for input less feelings could be for a change economically if the war emtions aren't played out.
Posted by: IXLNXS | Sep 27, 2004 5:29:30 PM
I wrote:
Maybe the states with fewer citizens simply need more federal funding because of a smaller tax base?Syverson:
Why is the solution always more federal funding? We're deficit spending with how many Trillions in debt...why not work on LESS federal funding?I'm against federal spending. My point was that perhaps the states receiving the most federal funds need more than their "fair share" because they have fewer taxpayers than the other states.
The five smallest states made the top ten, and the two largest states made the bottom ten. I don't think this is a coincidence.
Posted by: David Tribble | Sep 27, 2004 5:31:24 PM
Could it be that higher educated/higher paid individuals tend to:
1. Avoid living in flyover country
2. Think 'blue'
3. Pay more taxes
4. Not whine about it as much as they shouldHere in the Silicon Valley, I know quite a few radical-libertarian "taxes over my dead body" types which were born and raised in the Midwest. The funny thing is they don't recognize the irony of complaining about taxes when much of their early lifestyle was supported by the same taxes he's paying now.
Posted by: seeker | Sep 27, 2004 7:24:01 PM
Those are some pretty amazing statistics. I wonder what the entire figure is for the amount of tax dollars made by blue and given to red would be. There is another site I just saw called retrovsmetro.com that has a lot of similar types of info. They also have breakdowns on social and industrial issues. Anyway, these sorts of things will shatter the idea that republicans are the 'fiscally responsible' of the two parties. Just look at the subsidies!
Posted by: Casey | Sep 27, 2004 7:24:14 PM
If the victor gets the spoils then why did Texas get only .93 per dollar. Bush was the governor of Texas, so that argument is shot. Texas has no personal state income tax either if that has anything to do with it. True the states with a high ratio on the list have low population vs high federal involvement like parks and military. Texas covers alot of red.
Posted by: tim | Sep 27, 2004 9:11:47 PM
Let's be honest here. What this data illustrates is that the red states, although purportedly against big government and federal subsidies, actually rely heavily on the handouts from the federal government to stay afloat - funded by the blue states. The most recent farm bill was a prime example of pork barrel handouts to these red states. Marry this data with the data about state by state income levels, educational achievement and crime and you see that the red states are almost third world countries in comparison to their blue state counterparts. The red states are the true welfare queens, and yet they still have the gall to pontificate about how bad government handouts as they cash their checks.
Posted by: Midwesterner | Sep 27, 2004 10:37:50 PM
I do not believe that Hawaii is not in the top ten as far as fed dollars received compared to tax dollars paid out. They have numerous military bases, there is a multi billion dollar renovation of military housing, and the island is going to base a stryker brigade at Schofield Barracks. Hawaii's economy has always benefited from the military especially since Daniel Inouye is one of the big shots on the Military Appropriations Comittee
Posted by: Steven Conner | Sep 28, 2004 12:19:40 AM
Where are the spending totals for each state?
What is the federal payout to NY, or NJ, compared with the spending for ND, or NM?
I highly doubt that NM gets more federal spending than NY.
Anyone can jack with numbers to make a point, but its a point, and not a picture.
Posted by: John | Sep 28, 2004 12:25:20 AM
Small correction: I believe you are wrong when you say that Oregon and Florida were the two closest states in the 2000 Presidential election. Oregon had a Bush-Gore difference of 6765 votes out of a total of 1,530,549, which by my math comes to .4%. New Mexico, on the other hand, had a difference of 366 votes out of 598605 total, which is .06% of the total. Either by raw numbers or by percentage, New Mexico was tighter than Oregon in 2000.
As you noted, New Mexico is one of the big winners in this analysis, and does not come out even like Oregon or Florida.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/NM/frameset.exclude.html
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/results/OR/frameset.exclude.htmlPosted by: Sasha | Sep 28, 2004 1:10:19 AM
Jeez...
Where do you people think your food is grown? Your military is based? Your power is generated? Your equipment is manufactured and assembled? Red states subsidize blue state lifestlye.
Look at property values and cost of living in the urban parts of liberal blue America - what's a 2000 square foot house in San Francisco cost? How about NYC? That cost of living premium, which is paid by consumers of blue state products in red states, also slides you into a higher tax bracket. Someone earning 85k to do a job in Des Moines will have to earn what, twice that in San Francisco? Welcome to a whole new tax bracket with NO real gain in socioeconomic status.
Red states make life in blue states possible. They pay less taxes, you get urban lifestlye, fashion, culture - it isn't free, folks.
Posted by: MEC2 | Sep 28, 2004 2:22:22 AM
This so-called 'study' is utter nonsense. While the raw numbers may be correct, it really shows nothing.
I grew up in the North Dakota and my parents still live there. I will give you the 5 main reasons that state tops the list:
1) It has two major air force bases in a state with only 600,000 people.
2) Like all western states, it has a lot of land owned by the federal government under conservation (opposed by many residents), in American Indian reservations, and in national parks.
3) It is highly rural, therefore highways (which benefit the transport of goods across the country) cost a lot more money per person as compared to states like New York.
4) It is a farm state that receives a lot of farm aid, which is probably the only major legitimate issue from this 'study'.
5) It's population is elderly as all its young people leave for more urban areas. Therefore a higher percentage are on Medicare & SS.Bottom line, the bases would exist somewhere anyway. The roads are mostly necessary to allow easy transport across the US. The federal lands stuff is pushed by environmentalists and is actually opposed by the majority of the residents since it effectively eliminates a lot of growth possibilities. The average age of the state is no different in other retirement areas like Florida or Arizona. The farm subsidies are the only real unique federal government largesse to the state.
Posted by: Kory | Sep 28, 2004 2:38:45 AM
while there are a lot of military bases in the big red states, i would say the 184,234,234 military bases in california more than make up for them:) and there's still enough empty wilderness there to throw down a few square miles of missile silos and nuclear waste.
and not all blue states are completely lifestyle-subsidized by red states. one example would be connecticut- home to military bases, nuclear power plants, and some of those american indian reservations. of course, connecticut's american indian reservations actually MAKE money for the federal government....
Posted by: Jacob | Sep 28, 2004 8:04:48 AM
A moderate-to-liberal Republican from Mobile, Alabama, who intends to vote for John Kerry.
I have tired of all the Republican twisting and distortions. Yet, now I see that the Democrats are at it too. Implicit in this Red State/Blue State report (and its editorial title) is that the Bush administration and congressional Republicans dole out federal funds to reward the states that vote for Bush.
Hogwash.
Each state listed in the top 10 for federal funding per tax dollar paid is either in the bottom 10 of per capita income or is one of the bottom 5 of population per square mile. Hence, lesser taxes paid either based on lesser income or much lesser people per square mile.
And, the opposite is true for your "Blue States"That is the only conclusion I can draw from this report. And, I believe it is disingenuous to draw the conclusion you've implicitly drawn based solely on data showing federal dollars spent per tax dollars paid.
Sincerely,
PerryPosted by: Perry | Sep 28, 2004 8:24:55 AM
If anyone is drawing the conclusion that Bush changed the federal dole that much in four years, well that person is obviously a bit silly.
I would argue that the implicit conclusion by this information is merely a somewhat lighthearted jab at the people in traditionally conservative states (granted-using the most recent election results isn't the best measure of this) who complain of having to pay higher taxes. it works on a common-sense basis, but there are enough other factors to explain it at least somewhat.
yes, amongst those factors are the two you mentioned- lower income and more land. the federal institutions and grain belt reasons cited earlier are amongst the factors too. i think the logical leftist argument to then be made would be: "Why are the lower income income states, who pay less taxes, complaining about paying higher taxes?" and "Why are the most federally funded states, whose economies are helped directly and indirectly by the so-called pork barrel, complaining about federal government spending?" even if their reasons are more "noble" because they involve defense, it's still at least interesting to note that they're the ones benefiting most. and it is possible to do so without assuming that this "problem" starts and ends with this president.
there are a million reasons to hate Bush, why quibble by trying to force this one into that bunch?
Posted by: Jacob | Sep 28, 2004 9:15:02 AM
Look,
I don't think anyone thinks it was only in the last four years under Bush that this iniquity has existed in how federal dollars are doled it. It has been happening since probably before the civil war. It is pork barrel politics, pure and simple. Small population states have a disproportionate electoral advantage in presidential elections, and also in the U.S. Senate. A political scientist really has to struggle to justify the workings of a representative democracy in which the 800,000 or less citizens in South Dakota yield the same power in the Senate as the 60 plus million citizens in California. Or, for that matter, how Gore won the 2000 election by 500,000 votes, but lost the electoral college.
Hence, surprise, surprise, Wyoming, North Dakota, South Dakota and other sparsely populated states receive great federal largesse. Argue all you want about the excuses for it. In the end, its still a massive handout. It is just irksome that those receiving the handout seem so inclined to hypocritically attack the evil of dependence on the federal government.
Posted by: Midwesterner | Sep 28, 2004 11:37:57 AM
Nothing will change as long as the non-population-based Senate can pork everything up.
IMHO we should abolish the Senate and the Electoral college and go completely population-based.
Then again, I live in a large city. I would benefit from free agri-trade, but the Senate will never let that happen.
Posted by: Otis Wildflower | Sep 28, 2004 12:45:03 PM
I think Jacob hit the nail on the head. There are good reasons why these low income, low density states receive federal funding out of proportion to the averages. It's just ironic that they are the ones that bitch the most about high taxes and wasteful federal spending. Sadly, their electoral power is vastly greater than their population or fiscal contributions to the collective wealth of the United States would indicate.
Posted by: Common Sense | Sep 28, 2004 1:00:26 PM
I have argued about Bushs cronyism and fiscal irresponsibility til I'm blue in the face. At this point, I actually beleive that Karl Rove and the Spin Doctor squad have hired people just to come out on the net and lie repeatedly.
Bush repeats himself til you think he might be telling the truth. Bush did it about Saddam having connections to Al Queda, about the 550 specific "known" WMD sites, and he still does it today. Repeating something does not make it eventually true. Bush has actually managed to lie to himself so well, and so repeatedly, he really beleives what he says is true. (usually) Every now and again you can see a little reality spill in when he says things like.. " Abu Guh ... Rape". Seek the truth. Bush is a LIAR.
*10 Nobel Prize winning economists have come togeteher to write an open letter to the public supporting John Kerry.
*30 of 35 countries polled in a University of Maryland study strongly favor John Kerry as our next President. World opinion doesn't have a vote, but it does have an effect on our level of respect world wide.
*In the debate of 2000 Bush made big promises about health care for all, and hasn't come through in four years, but he swears THIS time it will work. He also said we shouldn't be out on "Nation Building" missions and that we needed to strengthen our ties to our allies. Well, Bush has definately weakened our ties to our allies, and he is certainly taking us on "Nation Building" missions. Lie, Lie, Lie. Easy as breathin for most folks.
*Bush turned the largest budget surplus in history (5 billion) into the biggest budget deficit in history. (422 billion and counting)
*Bushs lies and policys fueled the biggest protest of a political convention in history when 500,000 people protested the 2004 Republican National Convention.
*No Osama after 3 years of fumbled attempts.
Lots of links supporting these FACTs here:
http://www.collegedems.com/blog/archives/2004_09.php
under "Rocking the vote" on September 13th
http://www.muddysmind.com/archives/000730.html
That muddy guy must work for Karl Rove, or at least be on his Christmas list:)
VOTE JOHN KERRY!
Posted by: Independant Voter | Sep 28, 2004 3:14:14 PM
With 50-80% of some Western states owned by the Fed Gov compared to next to nothing in a state like mine (MN), these numbers are essentially meaningless. This "study" speaks more to the power of Congressional seniority than anything else and should be used by all of us who advocate term limits.
Posted by: Gene Eliasen | Sep 28, 2004 4:07:29 PM
well, i never claimied all the reasons those states receive money are "good." some of them politically sound, though- which means it's silly to complain about them because no serious politician will ever stick his or her neck out that far. ever.
personally, i think many of the reasons are antiquated/vestigial, or at the very least uberrationalized.
i can name one hundred countries that are worse off than california would be if it was its own country, because of its combination of wealth, natural resources, and strategic locale. but i'm not going to suggest it secede anytime soon. the "your state owes mine because of fiscal imbalance" game is really silly (the only thing sillier is the "your state owes mine because of cultural imbalance" argument of pinbot and mec2).a chart like this can serve a couple purposes though. it's nice to bring up around people who do complain about high taxes but live in the places that benefit most. the money may not be going to the complainer directly, but i'm sure it's going to help him or her somehow more than it will help people in other states. whatever the money is supporting (even if it benefits the whole nation) will likely benefit the locals even more (sure, we all like to visit national parks, but we can't all work at them. and how many support towns go under when a military base closes down?). yes, yes- all very simplistic, but fun to talk about nonetheless.
now if someone can just tell me why we pay a family of five in nebraska 30,000 a year to run a farm that doesn't grow anything when we could help out God knows how many families in Harlem for the same amount of money, i'll be all set....
:)
Posted by: Jacob | Sep 28, 2004 10:56:42 PM
This is so funny. Yeah, us people in those red states should be so thankfull that are small roads are replaced by large federal freeways, which then have thousands of semi-trucks driving goods to the red states, which make driving much more dangerous. Gosh, thank you, thank you. Oh, and thank you for all that wonderfull government land, which we can't charge property tax on, which is the local governments main source of funding. Thank you again for denying my county services. And gosh, it's so nice of you to give those agricultural subsidies. I mean, you wouldn't be doing it to maintain a stable food supply for the entire country. Nope, it's just to provide this country hick some welfare money. Gosh, your right, it's rediculous how I don't appreaciate all these great things the government does for me. All just for me and my fellow statesmen.
Posted by: IdahoKid | Sep 29, 2004 11:25:43 AM
I find it funny how quickly the right-wingers have gone on the defensive with this one. Well I guess I will use one of their more popular "catch phrases" on them like "quit making excuses".
I also find it funny how the people who complain the most about federal taxes are the ones who benefit the most. I guess next time instead of complaining about some liberal in New York or California you should thank them for having paved roads. Hey, they can import their food from other countries if needed but where can the red states get the money to pay for it's infrastructure if it weren't for the Federal government?
It is our patriotic duty as citizens to pay these taxes, after all freedom isn't free.
Paying your taxes is part of being an American and supporting your country. I guess I would suggest to you conservatives who are always whining about taxes (using another one of your popular catch phrases), "America, love it or leave it"! If you don't like paying your taxes move to Mexico or somewhere else with lower taxes.
Posted by: Liberal | Sep 29, 2004 12:05:21 PM
C'mon do you think Welfare, Education, Housing and urban Development, Social Security payments are even factored into those doctored number. They are Nationwide programs and not allocated individually by congress to states.
Check out real tax expenditures per capita
http://www.ofm.wa.gov/trends/htm/map507.htm
....Posted by: SH | Nov 3, 2004 4:45:49 PM
This isn't proving your point.
You misunderstand this data.>Check out real tax expenditures per capita
>http://www.ofm.wa.gov/trends/htm/map507.htmRead the title of the graphic dummy.
This is 'State & Local Government' expendenditures.
NOT federal expenditures.Duh. Most 'blue states' here have state-income taxes and spend more money on their citizens and communities.
The 'Commonwealth' of Massachusetts takes 4 1/2 % from every paycheck I earn, but that 4 1/2 % pays for everything tangible benefit that I see from Government. I pay the Feds five times that and I get nothing for it.
Taxachusetts. I wouldn't live anywhere else
Posted by: bobo | Nov 3, 2004 9:00:13 PM
"Where do you people think your food is grown? Your military is based? Your power is generated? Your equipment is manufactured and assembled? Red states subsidize blue state lifestlye."
Wow, MEC2, you mean they do all that for free?
That the blue states (which do, believe it or not, produce goods and power) don't pay non-tax money for these things when they get them from red states? Terrific -- where do I sign up for my free car? My free food? All this time I've been paying for these things, taking money down to a store and handing it over, when MEC2 tells me the red states are providing it to me for free! Man, talk about a letdown...
Posted by: QrazyQat | Nov 6, 2004 8:40:53 PM
Why should military bases not be considered pork? Miliary procurement, from basing to ball pens, is directly affected by Congressional legislation. Weapons systems or bases the military says it doesn't even need are often kept alive by Congress purely so they can bring home some bacon.
But, hey, if Red staters want to feel better because we put nuclear weapons in their states PRECISELY because there was nothing valuable there for the Russians to hit to begin with then they can go RIGHT ahead.
As for being poorer and having less people -- these two variables has been what fuels economic backwardness for centuries. Seeing they are against providing support for the poor, all I can say is that the less spent on funding hospitals in rural Alabama the better.
Jesus can provide, not me.
Posted by: Jeff | Nov 9, 2004 3:42:11 PM
God, the South is stupid.
Posted by: dave | Nov 10, 2004 3:02:03 PM
The reason the blue states pay more is because they vote for idiots like kerry that tax them out the yang. Now they are angry? If you have a headache quit hitting yourself in the head with the hammer. Dont vote for tax increases that eventually get wasted, I have been to new york and DC, everything costs more, I couldnt drive the cars I do and live in the house I do in those states, taxes are too high! Its your fault for voting for the crap not ours!
Posted by: red-state | Nov 10, 2004 6:43:25 PM
Just like a red(state)neck. Blame the guy whose paying for the bill. I say every dollar taxed should return to the state that pays the taxes, not support the droolers and knuckle-draggers from the former Confederacy.
Posted by: M. Able | Nov 11, 2004 10:48:06 AM
Hey Red States, give US back our money!
Posted by: Eric | Nov 11, 2004 4:46:52 PM
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